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Can I subsidiary program an USBDM's JM60CLD chip by using 6-pin header in USB-ML-CF?
MOISES S. Jun 19, 2020 at 04:23 AM (04:23 hours)
Staff: Takao Y.

  • Hello all.

    In order to resurrect an USBDM corrupted firmware, or at least blank it, I'd like to use the 6-point icp signals (header available 6-pin in USBDM's pcb) with my P&E USB-ML-CF, which has 6 pins plated which match the header although in altered order e.g. the nRESET pin is the 2nd one in P&E, the 4th one in 6-pin USBDM header.

    Can this be done? Any insight?

    I don't want to expend extra $$$ in buying a ML Universal which is the only one that currently the Firmware "resurrection" utility accepts. Why this? Can't the ML-USB-CF respond the same to BDM commands and signals BKGD etc. using the 6 plated spots in the ML-CF pcb?

    Please help since either I have to buy a new USBDM (came from Chinese distributor, I'd have to wait a lot now for another...) or by a P&E ML Universal just for flashing the one I have????

    Not much fair I guess, and excuse my criticism.

    Of course I'm browsing thru all the pertinant documentation, relating Firmware, OSBDM. USBDM, etc., I'm at a loss now and I can't resurrect my USBDM. it doesn't even enumerate properly. (I flashed a wrong re-compiled firmware).

    Thanks in advance!




    Comments

  • Greetings,

    The USB ML CF will only program Coldfire devices because it only has firmware to program coldfire devices. It will not be able to program any 6-pin BDM device. If you think if I gave you firmware that can program 6-pin BDM and you attempt to load it into your USB ML CF then you will only brick your multilink and it never enumerate properly.

    My best suggestion is to go through our trade-in program to get a discount towards a ML Universal:
    http://www.pemicro.com/products/product_viewDetails.cfm?product_id=15320176

    My other concern is the software you are using. It may also require updating if you use our latest hardware. Let me know which software you are using so I can suggest the best solution forward.


    Takao

  • Greetings,

    I do ask that you behavior yourself on the forums. I am not going to condone swearing and insulting my hard work and of my colleagues. Do you wish for people to insult your hard work? Do you not appreciate and respect other engineers for the education they also had to go through and be paid a fair wage?

    We provide tools for debugging and production so that you do not have to do it yourself. You are welcome to try making your own and maybe, then just maybe you will understand why people are willing to pay for our tools.


    Takao

  • I see, Takao, thanks for your email.

    First of all I don't think I've been swearing, excuse me.

    Second, do you work for NXP or for P&E? It never seems clear to me. Personally, who signs your paycheck? I say this because, as politely as I can express, you in the past directed me to use CW tools instead of P&E free tools. This makes sense to my perception which may be biased I admit, regarding embedded tools companies (some of them anyway).

    CW doesn't stand up to my needs because they just offer a 30 day period and on the contrary PROGCFZ the free edition code size limited you can use forever. I can also potentially use my ML-CF forever as long as I don't destroy it.

    My target specs are not that high anyway to justify CW toolset. I would do better with freely available CodeSourcery even old editions or the like.

    Now getting to the point, why do you feel insulted? If you happen to read the post just before the own I made there in that thread, the poor user lists a sequence of loops he'd been going thru. I think what's really supportive apart of course of your usually prompt responses here, is to don't lock users into using systems both prohibitively priced and unexpected and constaly tied to whatever MS stuff happens to change mind one given day.

    We've all been there and it's not nice. If you think the world is not enough free yet to publicly display our dislike of companies then what are we living into? A kind of corporate-cracy???

    Now back to the topic of using the ML-CFE as a programmer via the 6-pin... the format of the .S8P file that the Firmware recovery tool uses is apparently the same of proper .CFG files for the CPROGCFZ for Coldfires... so what's the deal? I know, firmware is not able to handle a coming BDM command? Then why do you include a directory with tons of .CFP's and also for main Coldfire devices if the BDM commands in the scripts e.g. EM, etc are not being recognized?

    It the product has 6 available pads providing the required signals, what on earth is gonna keep me from at least asking whether it's potentially possible to use it? The script for erasing a MC9S08 firmware via the 6-pin is one included and documented... I'm NOT talking programming via the 26pin specific BDM header for the ColdFires, of course.

    Why do P&E connect the signals to those pads in the first place??? Oh I get it, maybe to lock users into spending extra $$$ getting their devices sent with additional $$$ (not to mention "useful" upgrading "programmes" $$$), for "some knowledgeable technician authorized" to actually USE the pads and flash or whatever. Why don't you hide this in the first place?

    I'm only asking, I admit maybe from partial ignorance, but please maybe don't comdemn people for just expressing their opinion of companies tactics. This doesn't in any way imply that you don't deserve your salary of your results from your hard work, when did I imply this?

    Can we get to sort out these technical questions of mine?

    Kind regards and anyway thanks for the input.

  • Another issue I have is, every single time I try to login into my P&E account the password doesn't work and I must get a new one from an email sent.

    Then I go to my profile and try to change the password, just in case one can't keep the temporarily assigned one, but it doesn't let me.

    I hope someone in your company can help me handle with that, because it doesn't contribute to the public image of P&E.

    Besides, I can get track of my own post and your usually gentle responses and repost them in any private BLOG I want to, just to make people aware of (some) user's experiences. This contributes to a global view of any company without hiding the "questions", and it's both legal and healthy don't you think.

    I'll try to keep my session on since if I disconnect know until I read some reply I'll have to get a password reissued to me...

    Thanks again

  • Greetings,

    I work for PEmicro and we work closely with NXP who provides excellent tools that I thought would fit your needs. I am sorry if Codewarrior was not the tool you were looking for. I am just trying to help.

    You did indeed swear, quote "s***", and I had to delete your post on another thread. Because I am the technical support manager and I moderate these forums. I know everyone's on edge these days, and maybe you are in loungewear and working from home like I am, and I hope you are well and safe as I am. But swearing, using passive agressive quotation marks around words, and using $$$ to indicate too expensive to my other customers are not professional at all. This is not a Yelp or Twitter platform. Start your own blog I think everyone should and say what's on your mind. But this is not your blog.

    You are free to voice your opinion that you did not like something and we are here to do our best to help you out. But this forum is used to help other people in our community who may have similar questions and concerns as well. And we do our best to answer them quickly. We welcome new ideas and suggestions because we listen to our customers and we take them to our meetings.

    Vote with your money. If you do not like something, then don't buy it. Maybe there are other tools out there that fits your needs and it sounds more and more that we are not that company. That is fine. No matter how you accomplish your project, we always hope you the best of luck and we hope we were the tools that got you there.

    We have the 6 pin to program that USB ML CF. Just like any embedded board out of production they need to be programmed. That's why the 6-pin exists because there's a Freescale HC12 chip on that board that holds the multilink firmware to drive the programming of your coldfire devices. We use our own programming tools to program the multilinks. We use Freescale/NXP chips to hold those firmwares to program the next Freescale/NXP chip and all other silicon vendors we support (it is very meta, like robots building other robots). The 6-pin is an input port, not output. We think it's not important at all to our customers and why confuse the customer whose focus are to use the 26-pin connector. That is why it is covered up with our plastic housing.



    Takao

  • Yes Takao and thanks for the input again, I appreciate your remarks and your technical savvy, always.

    See, in some other post I can't remember exactly where it was, someone suggested to open the case, maybe this was for the Universal ML.

    I see the 6pin is used to program/get the firmware there in production of your ML-CF.

    My question is maybe a newbie one, but: what does mean that the HCS12 in there can't accept a BDM commands script (with PE syntax like .CFG and .S8P) and thus proceed to program

    The pins/pads being 'output' I think doesn't influence the electronics? In that, it's the firmware you got there at factory which is using those pads as input (to the HCS12) and then never again used, BUT if I had the need to say erase the HCS12 Flash by means of the pads, and then somehow assemble my own bootloader and /or firmware, couldn't it be theoretically used to transform the ML-CF into some other thing?

    In any case, my actual problem is a USBDM (very much like the OSBDM and in fact has all the headers for all types, and 6-p explicity header etc.) based on JM60CLD, which I overwrote the firmware. I know this can be reversed if just the firmware utiity (for USBDMs)saw the VID/PID, even the "wrong" ones because source code is available for us to recompile, BUT, since it doesn't enumerate, I want to know the proper, lowcost, minimum expenditure route to get the USBDM pcb programmed (at least erased to get to square 1), via 6-pin BDM. What must I build/ get my hands on/ solder/ program/ buy (last option) for doing this myself?

    I'm just trying to resurrect the USBDM, which maybe for some folks here is SO evident and self-explaining, BUT I don't know how to do it, so sorry if this derived me to some grunts about P&E, whose products otherwise I love too.

    Regards and please if any soul can explain me the login/password issue thanks in advance too.

  • Greetings,

    Probably the fastest solution with little cost is desolder the JM60 from another identical board that has the firmware you want, and solder it onto your board.

    The more practical solution is that you need to buy a BDM programmer. Of course the answer you did not want to hear. I will explain.

    The BDM port you are looking at cannot be used as output because BKGD pin is used to hold a chip in debug, and the chip itself cannot control the BKGD pin. The HC12 in the debugger uses its own PORT pins to send signals to put the target chip into debug mode. If you saw our USB ML 12 product, you will see that we still needed a BDM port to program the HC12 on the multilink, and another 6-pin BDM that is used to connect to the target chip.

    So, you could potentially erase the HC12 chip, create your own firmware, use the 26-pin port to act as BDM and hope to program another chip. But you would then need to figure out all the electronics between the HC12 and the 26-pin header. Buffers, pull-up resistors, capacitors, zenor diodes, etc. We obviously will not be sending out our schematic design.

    And lastly, there needs to be a software component and the USB drivers. The multilink is not a standalone programmer. It requires commands from software via USB to do the erasing, programming, and verification. The HC12 alone does not have enough memory to carry its own firmware AND the USBDM firmware you wish to program.

    I reset your account's password. Use the password "PEmicro100%". Once you do that, you need to then change your password.


    Takao

  • Thank you for this valuable information and insight.

    With this information I guess I can valuate my options and yes, maybe the quickest easiest solution would be to obtain a general BDM programmer/flasher, but I don't know whether Multilinks Universal are still available and the delivery estimates....

  • Takao, please what is the price for the ML Universal considering I already own a ML-USB-CF and how many days would it take to ship to Spain considering the current situation?

    Thanks in advance.
    I tried the resetting password advice and it worked. But then I don't know maybe previously it failed because I used an accent (') within the password. I now used a more "regular" password.

    Thanks

  • Greetings,

    Use the trade-in program to get a discount towards a ML Universal:
    http://www.pemicro.com/products/product_viewDetails.cfm?product_id=15320176

    When you check out, mention in the notes that Takao sent you and that due to COVID19 instead of sending your multilink to the USA and waiting for the ML Universal to be shipped out (which could take awhile), to just send the ML Universal to your location and you will destroy the USB ML CF with picture proof.


    Takao

  • Before I proceed to this (if I deem it finally an useful solution to my needs), I have to ask, is there any chance I could completely erase the JM60's flash in the USBDM unit I own, just by using internal BDM commands and the 6-pin interface (which in the case of the USBDM unit is well documented and connected to the chip)?

    Just in case I can solve this with a bit of (save the hassle) low-level programming of those signals, acc. to e.g. USBDM information, JM60 chip datasheet, details for internal Flash erasing algorithm, etc.

    What I really need right now is for this wrong firmware in the USBDM to get cleared out the way. My initial guess what I could maybe use the ML-CF to do that, but Takao pointed out that it's nearly impossible to do so. So even if a Universal P&E ML would be a welcome addition to my arsenal, maybe there's a change that I can manage to erase the Flash by myself with direct access to the pins??? (via e.g., a basic say 16F876/Arduino/whatifnot uC-driven external program, or whatever means.)

  • In regards to destroying my current ML-CF in exchange for a brand new ML Universal, I have to say it's contrary to my mind to intentionally destroy otherwise perfectly functional hardware. There might be a soul out there which needs a USB ML and I'd prefer for P&E to donate it/ resell it than to destroy the PCB sawing it by the middle and send a pic of the poor thing. I hate programmed obsolescence. If I end up paying $129 for a (reduced price) ML Universal then I'll take my initiative to send back the functioning ML-CF to the P&E offices in the US, even if that costs me a bit of extra money...

    Kind regards.

  • Greetings,

    I'm sure some search online you might find a cheap alternative to erase your BDM chip.

    The reasoning behind destroying the multilink is because a lot of our tools are switching over to the new framework we have been working on for the last 7 to 8 years. Very soon we will have to discontinue support for all of the older multilinks because they lack the security, features, and speeds that customers (and Microsoft Windows) now demand. By reselling or donating it the next user will only be surprised that all of the latest operating system, software, and drivers cannot support it. The trade in program helps ease the transition with a financial incentive.

    I am trying my best to keep the older hardware support alive as much as possible by creating patches for older software, but there is only so much I can do. For example 6 years ago we had to drop parallel port multilink support because most computers don't even come with that port anymore and demand was too little to maintain. The same will happen when BDM devices and other legacy products from Freescale disappear and we want to make room for new chips coming out onto the market. That 26-pin JTAG for ColdFire takes up a LOT of space.


    Takao

    • Takao,

      I see your company reasoning here, but I don't see the point, if an user opts for using Windows XP in a local, non-networked station for developing and e-g wishes to debug a CF5307 or whatever design which is kinda primitive for today's standards but otherwise fully functional, why can't he/she keep using the ML-CFE, even with all the "security" holes??

      At the end the facts are, that all companies must adhere to this state of things aka planned obsolescense, just because the uC you wish to program has no ongoing support because Windows hasn't because your motherboard hasn't and so the toolchain doesn't and the target doesn't and the BDM pod doesn't.

      I can understand from a finantial, company surviving in the tech jungle viewpoint, but from other concerns like trashing electronics, energy consumption, effort man hours taken into update specs, documentation, toolsets... new bugs, new challengues, people adapting to the "new reality" (also in tech ways) in a never-ending frenzy way. Not much sane. Excuse me, I'd prefer to go on using kinda old platforms and toolsets (even if not supported) to develop simple, tiny, home automation designs and the like... why not?

      Lack of updated support is not a valid reason for me, because there's also a lack lack of proper support for products just unleashed to the market and you know that. If I have to worry about lack of support for an old product just to start figuring things out again for a new line of uCs or a new, buggy, requirement-devouring new software to accompany, then let me happy with my old toolset, it's not worth the hassle in some scenarios.

      Of course the big companies with the big bucks, which will always be trated gold by P&E and others, have no problem spending those bucks in the new toolsets and renewing their base of debuggers, hardware tools, etc. every n months. Hey, they've grown used to ever renew their personnel every so often, dump people, etc, so what would be stopping them from doing that?

  • Hello.

    I've envisioned maybe a way to properly erase the JM60's flash. Maybe building myself a quite simple BDM programmer around one 68HC11A1FN I've got laying around, I can bootstrap it and get it to just send the erase command to the JM60 via the "IN for the USBM" 6-pin port?

    I've got most of the parts here at my workshop, 68HC11A1FN (ROMless but then I've got a 32K SRAM chip, the required 74LS573 to latch the address+data bus portion... I'd like it to operate with RS232, I've got MAX(3)232 etc.

    The schematic could get similar to this:
    http://www.orgler.it/index11.htm
    or maybe this: the original schematics for "Open Source BDM board" (reference design) which is based upon a MC68HC908JB16...

    What I'm lacking, Takao (and excusem me if this is getting way off-topic regarding P&E) is knowdledge about whether I can adopt some HC12/HCS08 routine in another firmware/s to send this (single) erase command to the JM60.

    I just need a bit of a push on my shoulder, just an indication on what pieces to get together and then I'll get down to soldering (I've already started this project, soldering up the buses and latch), so please I just need a HINT on how to send the Erase command. I don't even care if it implements the full BDM works, only just the Erase command, may be programatically simpler and keep the memory requirements reduced for this exercise.

    Do you deem this as doable? In any case, I've ordered yet another USBDM (chinese variety which implements the most complete, OSBDM-style headers and options), same exactly as the one I'm dealing with trying to resurrect.

    I already own a couple more PODS BDM but are all for ColdFire or MPC860.

    The Multilink Universal could be another welcome addition as I said, let me know Takao, how much do they take to ship to Spain? (I'm sending the ML-USB-CF untouched for you to donate or reuse/canibalize by slow snail mail to the US the moment when I get the Universal in my hands).

  • Takao, thanks for your further explanations and I really appreciate the care to maintain a proper balance between tech. innovation & customer support for old & discontinued P&E products...

    I've placed an email for Sales to quote and tell me how to proceed payment for my new USB Multilink Universal in future exchange for my USB-ML-CFE.

    I appreciate if you can give some insight on my "exercise project" until the new programmer arrives here at Spain.

    Thank you!

  • Greetings,

    I have no experience using HC11, so you are on your own on that aspect. I am also not an expert BDM protocol and the erase command in HC12 and HCS08. You will need to do all the reading yourself. I can only help you with the hypotheticals, like you can build your own debugger/programmer if you have the time and resources.

    Note, even if you did get the Multilink Universal, know that you will need software. What is your plan there? Are you going to use Freescale's Codewarrior?


    Takao

  • Hi, I'll guess until I can somehow accomodate the extra pluging cash (hehe) I could use a month or free CW editions. I've only used to Coldfire editions and then even if they're quite old on their own a month can lapse real quick when electronics is your hobby but not your day work I guess :)

    Is there anything resembling an evaluation board of sorts or sometjing that goes along the Universal but

    I've also seen some freebie utilities out there, mostly command line, that appearently support OSBDM, Universal, other pods...

    I know I can succeed in building my own "dedicated" BDM pod, when I say "dedicated" I mean, that given the 68HC11AN is 8-bit and ROMless one has to optimize the code one drops upon it, so as all I know (for the moment) is to issue a BDM flash blank command I don't have to reserve space in the programming uC as much as normally since the target (JM60) in this case I don't need to replenish its own firmware, just be able to erase it.

    I guess surfing the documentation carefully will be enough, but then there's the time spent in soldering with these pretty numb hands of mine :)

    Thanks

  • Greetings,

    I am not going to discuss competing solutions to my company's. Again, this forum is about discussing questions related to PEmicro.

    Our discussion ends here. You need to figure out the rest on your own. If you have questions about PEmicro tools, I want you to create a new forum thread and ask questions there.


    Takao

  • Greetings,

    We are clearing up confusion in the sales team. They forgot to put notes on your order that they should be sending the ML to you before you ship yours back to them.



    Takao

  • Greetings,

    Paypal payment has gone through, we are working on getting the hardware for you. I have put a special request to get your hardware out first.


    Takao

  • Takao, thanks and I really am looking forward to this addition to my kit.

    As I said before I’ve re flashed my old USBDM (you can see a picture of how trashed it was, poor soldering and epoxy skills on my part lol, in some NXP,forum thread too). I used another USBDM for that, because this USBDM although very cheap like 20 usd comes from China and does ALL the same targets as original OSBDM design, much like same hardware, except for pin 2 in the JM60 chip that on the OSBDM is connected to a jumper so you can selectively ground it.

    So this aspect which had me looping has been solved.

    I have this question now, since I will be returning the MLCFE as soon as the Universal gets here, is there any way I can spend its final days “working with it”, to learn more, for example you mentioned that this design has pads for IN sense of the 6-pin BDM interface. Is it possible to recover say the firmware original in case it gets corrupt with an USBDM? I figured out the pin sequence is diferente but the BKGD, nRESET and power lines are there in the pads. I guess maybe it’s just for the factory programming? If you lose an ML-CFE firmware, can it be recovered with an Universal and the recover utility from P&E?

    I say this because currently the leds do not power in this device, I guess maybe from tinkering with the pads and BDM signal something went wrong. It doesn’t matter much since I’m sending the unit back to P&E headquarters anyway as this was the exchange requisites to upgrade to the Universal.

    Kind regards and thanks for any insight you can give

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